Could it of been Friday we were talking S&P 1100? Now looking at potentially 1000?
As we've discussed there was support at 1160 from April 2004; and if that held there really was nothing major below it because then we go back to 2003. Which was essentially straight up (after our last horrific period: 2000-2002). So with no real base building, there is no real support. Not that support matters when there is a complete buyers strike.
Again, in 1987 companies came in and bought back their shares - but they had cash and access to credit. Now, some still have cash - but that access to credit part is an issue.
We've surpassed everything historic so it's simply "remember these past few weeks because they will be talked about for a few generations".
S&P 1100 is psychological "support" if you'd like to call it that, but then again so was Dow Jones 10,000 - so it's quite useless.
I would not be shocked at all to see (yet again) some sort of government response overnight but will anyone care? The problem is we've had so many government responses since August 2007, the patient is building immunity to it. Remember, when we bailed out Fannie and Freddie we had a 24 hour rally - that's it, before we lost all of it. I remember, because I remarked at least with Bear Stearns we got a nice month of rally. Now with this huge bailout the response was a massive selloff, not a rally. So I'm not sure what stops it, until everyone simply gives up.
But just like 2000-2002, another generation of investors will have simply given up on this market. Thank you free markets, lack of regulation, and the masters of the universe who run the global financial system. Another job well done.
Last stat of the day, for those wondering, post Great Depression the average bear market is -30%. Obviously I never thought this would be "average" but then again I thought it would of be drawn out over a much longer pace - but in a leveraged world, margin calls leave us with no time frame. With today's action we are in the mid 30%s from the highs, almost 1 year ago to the day.
The worst since the Depression have been upper 40%s in early 70s and 2000-2002. So to reach the worst non 1930s scenario there is 10-12%ish to go. Again, not unexpected but never expected these moves in such a straight shot.
Monday, October 6, 2008
Complete Buyers Strike
Posted by
TraderMark
at
2:25 PM
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7 comments:
Even after these losses and potentially reaching a 'bottom,' what factors are going to turn this around? The fed has lowered rates, the bailout (either pro or against) don't matter, etc. What's the big picture stimulus that needs to occur?
As TM noted, there is a lack of buyers..(And in prior posts, a massive dumping of equities by the funds. Market Folly notes that this probably will continue as redemptions continue.) However, there are some good things happening... Mainly foreign governments are pulling a Paulson and backing up their banks. There is also a great expectation that we will get a 1 point Fed drop and that other foreign governments are probably going to abandon their 'lets fight inflation' stance and possibly most importantly, China is jumping in feet first to stimulate their economy. Russia has already begun to do so. It is unfortunate that the world's economy can't work together, as it probably would be to everyone's benefit... Buuut...
Anyway, at this point, it would seem to me that we will have a rebound, not because of these efforts, but 'when' buyers think that the market has stopped discounting. There is a lot of money on the sidelines and many of them are value investors. It would be nice if that process began before the election and ran through Xmas..
jegan
Thanks! Unfortunately earnings season is already upon us and there may another dry heave of puking before the elections (like the flogging MOS received!).
We entered this downturn with relatively low stock prices due to the 2000-03 bear market. Considering that, having a market down 35% is remarkable. JOYG and TEX may buy back the whole company at this rate. Record % in money market accounts. When the buyers strike ends, plenty of cash is ready to come back into the market. Buffett is already in and now Calpers is in.
1987 crash......after 1 year market was UP 22.90%...after 2 years market was UP 54.30%
1990 Persian Gulf war...after 1 year market was UP 23.60%..after 2 years UP 31.30%
2003 invasion of Iraq...after 1 year market was UP 29.60%...after 2 years UP 31.40%
X - PE 5
MOS - PE 5
RIG - PE 5
FCX - PE 5
When we do have a turn-around, can it really happen without these types of companies. Call it a commodity bubble or whatever, but you can't build a house with iPods :)
It's great to put a spin on what we see, but if I'm going into Mark's Fund, I want ideas for how he is or would act as a fund manager. There's plenty of explanation, after the fact, but when the going gets tough the tough get going is a saying out there. What then is the PLAN? Tell me now, before more news, what his plan would be NOW; and then let's see if it works out on paper! This fund is "Immaginary" so tell me what you will do and let's see if it works!
IF, the cash limit needs adjusting, then say so and do it in the final plan. I have had my $ in funds that have limited cash on hand and when the ++++ hits the fan, they just go down the slippery slope. Control needs tools. Tools in a fund are certainly the ability to hold CASH.
Anyway, I don't want to hear POLITICS, I want to hear "How this fund would address the CURRENT STUFF, YES STUFF, in advance."
Then I'd like some time to digest.
Right now, although I have very high marks for Mark, I'd like to see a BULL.
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