#1 Quanex Building Products (NX) - from last earnings report in August
- Quanex Building Products Corp. on Thursday lowered its forecast for operating income for the fiscal year that ends in October, citing weakness in its aluminum business. Quanex said it expects to generate about $75 million in operating income for the fiscal year, down $5 million from the previous forecast, due mostly to weakness in its Nichols Aluminum unit, where shipped pounds in the third quarter fell 11 percent from a year ago.
- Chief Executive David D. Petratis said the company is still in "a very difficult housing market" and doesn't expect any near-term improvement in the situation.
- Houston-based Quanex updated the outlook as it released results for its fiscal third quarter, in which profit plunged to $8.8 million, or 24 cents per share, from $38.6 million, or 98 cents per share, a year earlier. Sales also declined to $240.3 million from $269.5 million a year earlier.
#2 Whirpool (WHR) - from earnings report in July (and yes commodity prices have dropped a bit since)- Household appliance maker Whirlpool Corp. said Wednesday its second-quarter profit fell 27 percent because of higher material and oil-related costs, and lower U.S. demand.
- "This is a very serious, severe economic environment," Jeff M. Fettig, Whirlpool's chairman and chief executive, said during a teleconference with industry analysts. "We're aggressively trying to manage every part of our business."
- The company expects industrywide demand in the United States to finish the year down 6 percent to 7 percent and down 2 percent to 3 percent in Europe.
- Fettig said the company expects to pay $600 million to $650 million more for oil-related costs and raw materials such as steel during 2008, up from its estimate three months ago of $450 million to $500 million.
#3 Sherwin Williams (SHW) - from last earnings report in July- Sherwin-Williams Co. posted a better-than-expected second quarter, despite a weak housing market and higher material costs that dragged the paint maker's profit down 15 percent.
- Still, the company cautioned investors that it would be forced to raise prices for a third time this year, and predicted the still-souring housing sector will hamper its third-quarter results.
- "We believe the significant challenges we faced in the first half of 2008 will certainly continue into the second half. Demand is likely to continue to deteriorate, and raw material cost pressures will increase as the full impact of recent price increases have yet to be realized."
- Among the hardest hit was the company's consumer group, where profit fell nearly 29 percent to $59 million. Paint stores' segment profit fell nearly 12 percent to $210.4 million. And same-store sales -- an important metric for retailers -- fell 4.5 percent.
These are but 3 examples, there are a handful of others in the "related to home building" space. Not to mention the home improvement stores...
As an aside, I am not sure what happened August 11th but whatever it was - it drove 4 of these 5 stocks through resistance. Maybe that was the day a few quant funds all got the same signal that it was time to get in... volume peaked across the board in all these names.... we'll never know exactly "what" was the trigger but it's an interesting pattern.So reality on the ground says no rebound now, nor in the near future. Logic would dicate no rebound in the near future. The CEOs see nothing great on the horizon. But all the stocks say: rebound in the near future. Or, in a market where there are little advantages with so much money chasing the same ideas, people have to pile in even earlier than usual (instead of looking out 6 months, maybe one needs to look out 15 months) to catch the ride. We'll know better by next spring if these charts lied and this is yet another thesis that fast money is running into to just to try to create return, or if it's signaling to us that we have no idea about how great the housing market will soon be. Or... the last situation is a "game changer" such as what Democrats are now proposing - now that they control Fannie and Freddie - foreclosures should cease for 90 days and then we should allow people to trade their old loans for new "fixed at 6.5% loans"
- They have called for Lockhart to follow the example of Sheila Bair, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. head, who has prodded banks to develop comprehensive plans for modifying loans that homeowners can no longer afford. The FDIC temporarily froze foreclosures after it took over the collapsed Pasadena, Calif.-based bank IndyMac. The agency later engineered a plan to allow most IndyMac borrowers who were seriously delinquent or in default on their mortgages to switch into loans capped at an interest rate around 6.5 percent.
The other question is - do you chase this move or not? From a purely technical perspective (and frankly the only thing working) these are all buys. But so was the S&P 500 in October 07 when people were piling in on "the worst is behind us" thinking, or in technology stocks a few months ago as people were piling in on "technology is a safe haven when oil drops" thinking. So even the "bull markets" are hard to decipher in this market.
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11 comments:
Now govt getting involved with leh. Where does it end. Market rallied at the end of the day when the rumor leaked. Look at MER, WM, etc, do they all need govt help. How about gm & f? I say wait for a possible 5-10% rally then a pretty safe short. But I don't short, I will just sit on cash.
After the shorts are done with LEh they will move to MER
only MS and GS look to survive
as for LEH, it looks to be down in after hours to 3.50s so that tells me its been leaked to Goldman... I mean, the market assumes... there is going to be a takeunder by Bank of America this Sunday night and the government will back the portfolio similar to Bear Stearns
The question is can lehman fight and get more than $2 a share of your money!
This creates the appearance of 'free market capitalism' because surely BAC wants LEH...
Then we can have Wells Fargo buy Washington Mutual with federal guarantees
Then we need to find someone to buy AIG with federal guarantees
then we can let the next 150-250 banks fail since they are smaller and the market can rally 50% next year
Of course the US keeps it AAA rating despite taking on hundreds of billions of new obligations
and the dollar should rally
did I mention we get a fed cut rate by end of year too?
All the King's Horses, and the King's Men will put Humpty Dumpty together again... and you will pay for it. (and your grandkids)
oh yes Democrats, now that they control Freddie and Fannie, are saying we should freeze all foreclosures and give everyone in America with a Freddie Fannie loan a fixed rate loan. I mean that's fair to everyone who has been paying and actually read their loan documents
So just like that, again - all problems solved.
Ta-da!
The destruction of America is accelerating. The reprecussions of what Paulson has done in the last 2 weeks will outlast the consequences of the Iraq war by decades. We are entering some deranged national state of criminal behaviour where every politician and citizen tries to loot the rest of the country before the end game begins. America will be in a truly sorry state by 2012. I'm stupefied. Where is the outrage?
And, yes, trading is really hard battling the quants and all of the systemic information leaks about bailouts.
Ebear,
I read something a few years ago (maybe 2006) that multi years into Iraq war some 60% of Americans could not pick out Iraq on a world map
Do you *really* think the vast majority understand what the economic implications are
Do you think most heard of Fannie?Freddie before a week ago?
My parents are very educated, smart people and never heard of Bear Stearns or Lehman Brothers.
If you don't know what is going on, how can you be outraged.
I tell you - I bet you 90% of people (or more) have no idea about all this "stuff"
Go walk through a local grocery store and ask people their opinions of Fannie/Freddie
I am not being demeaning - it is just not something most people are interested in.
Hence, "they" can do whatever "they" wish since most are not keeping an eye on them. Unless the media makes it into something that can be absorbed in 180 seconds or less. Otherwise it is "too hard". After being a story for a day or two it's gone. p.s. it wasn't even the lead on some national news reports Sunday/Monday - the hurricane was #1.
And yes stuff is getting leaked constantly - its such a joke. Last Friday financials reverse - what do we get - Fannie/Freddie bailout. Now today they reverse mid day - what do we find out late in the day?
Obviously the people who "need to know" are getting information to trade off before the peons.
Just another step in making this a place for institutions only (and the biggest at that) and less for retail investors.
Really a pathetic state of affairs.
And yes I'm very angry. But I am probably one out of 500.
"Hot Money Says a Housing Turn is Coming Soon"...
I have a really nice condo you can buy in San Diego. I'll give it to you for a steal!! :P
BD
Correction, Mark, it is not S&P 500, it is the S&P 498 ;)
maybe it will be S&P 497 after LEH ;)
Or maybe they will replace the lost stocks at it it will be S&P 498, with 500 stocks but a value of 498.....then I would be bullish.
Mark now i know where the term bullshyt comes from, it is the stuff bulls spread to get you to buy stocks (they're cheap!!)
even if housing did recover, the stocks moved up so much it is pricing it in. But do these morons realize that people who buy houses have to have jobs...and the number of jobs is plunign by the month, therefore the number of eligible buyers (bc who can really buy a house unemployed?) is plunging by the month so DEMAND is plunging by the month.
I guess to kool aid causes memory loss.
And I am VERY frustrated as well...I remember sharing my "Depression forecast" with some people i know (students) and i was laughed at as "unamerican"....well now on CNBC, headline, the euro guys call for a depression....lol what was truly un-american was the handing of fiscal and monetary policy and the treasury and ........etc (1000 other things- greenscam) of the last 20 years.
I wouldn't be so frustrated if this market was rational...but that is the icing on the cake.
BTW: i am making sure my house has a 30 day supply of food minimum
Here is what is even more pathetic. I listen to CNBC on the Sirius Radio. You listen to the news about Fannie or Freddie or Lehman and never do you hear the outrage. All you ever hear is what the next news story will mean for the stock price. For example, a news flash comes in - some rumor from the Washington Post about who or what is going to buy Lehman. The host's next question is not what does this mean in the sense of another Fed bail out but how is the stock going to open up tomorrow. All they care about is gaming the next 4 hours. I realize it is all about trading but let's get real...It is sad.
Now this bit about the housing stocks. As mentioned last week on this site, I thought the charts had many characteristics of stocks that might undergo a secular change. Yes it is hard to square with the fundamentals but I see this too and I am perplexed.
Mark, what do you think about USG?
I'm outraged too! So add me to the 500 people who give a crap. You're right though Mark, most people not only don't care but they also are not educated enough to know what's going on. Look at someone like Ron Paul. It is hard for someone like him to become popular because he's usually talking over most peoples heads.
As far as the housing stocks go, I think people are buying them while thinking that they can't go any lower. Of course people tried that with FNM, FRE, and other financials and that hasn't worked so well.
There is no good stock, only good trade.
Most of the general American people are not educated at all. Just watch Jay Leno's "Jaywalking"...
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