First of all thanks to the readers who sent me historical data on the "market" as requested yesterday.
I wanted to take a look to see how the market did (using S&P 500) in years following 'historically' bad years such as the one we are currently experiencing. In fact, this is tracking to be the worst year in history - worse than any of the Great Depression era. Now let me preface this by saying I am not big on the whole "every 3rd year of a Presidential cycle the stock market returns on average X percent" or "when the moon is in the fifth quadrant of blah blah, then the market returns X percent" or "if the NFC team wins the Super Bowl...." well you get the idea.
That said, I am a big reversion to mean person. For example as of last night's close the S&P is 37% below its 200 day moving average - the worst ever. Doesn't mean we rally today or Monday or ever again - but if you don't have probabilities and statistics you really have nothing. The market turns into a casino - which as we keep saying is why this market has become useless as an investment vehicle - no playbook is working, no historical precedent, no probability, etc. So heading back to the reversion to mean theory, if the market returns X% over the really long run (50 year periods) and you have a period of extended gains as we did in the 80s/90s you should expect a period of substandard returns (Warren B warned of this actually at the beginning of the decade). You can do the same over shorter time frames. Effectively we've gone back to 1997 levels on many indexes so that's a reversion to mean if I ever saw one.
But just for historical reference I am listing the worst market years post 1926, and then the returns in the 1st and 2nd year after. It is listed in order of worst year to "least" worst - I pulled the 5 years that now trail 2008 as the "worst ever"
#1) 2008: -48.8%
'09: ?
'10: ?
#2) 1931: -43.3%
'32: -8.2%
'33: +54.0%
#3) 1937: -35.0%
'38: +31.1%
'39: -0.4%
#4) 1974: -26.5%
'75: +37.2%
'76: +23.8%
#5) 1930: -24.9%
'31: -43.3%
'32: -8.2%
#6) 2002: -22.1%
'03: +28.7%
'04: +10.9%
***************
Conclusions: There are no conclusions here as every set of historical conditions are different. There were no derivatives in the 1930s, but there was not an easy Central Bank flooding the world with capital either. In the end basic economics are all that matters - price is the cross section of supply and demand; my main concerns at this time are demand for stocks. This "Great Deleveraging" is problematic in that stock valuation were obviously being buoyed by some large degree by over levered institutions - so we have multi years ahead where demand will be depressed from 2005-2007 levels. Further, I believe we've permanently lost a great many of the "retail" investors - many burnt twice in a decade now, and even longer term types from the 1990s who using conventional investment vehicles (index ETFs) have made nothing for 12-13 years, while other buying the "bluest of blue chips" (GE, GM, Citigroup) have been destroyed. Of course supply of stock is never ending as insiders enrich themselves by issuing new stock and option grants to make sure they never lose but that's a discussion for another day.
What strikes me is just how bad this year has been; the variance between this year and even the 4th worst year in history (-26.5%) is gaping. We are almost double the 4th worst year in history at this moment.
If you do take any stock in this, you should be bullish or at least neutral for the intermediate term... aside from episode #5 which was the birth of the Great Depression, most other historically bad years were followed by a large rebound. And things were pretty good two years out as well. On the other hand, aside from 1973-1974 most people seem to be comparing this era as most similar to 1930-1931. So just some data for those numerically inclined as I am...
*Please note the 2002 number looks benign by today's standards but this is the S&P 500 and not the NASDAQ which was the epicenter of that bubble.
Friday, November 21, 2008
How Has the Market Done After Historically Bad Years?
Posted by
TraderMark
at
7:15 AM
TweetThis
TweetThis
Posted by
TraderMark
at
7:15 AM
How Has the Market Done After Historically Bad Years?
2008-11-21T07:15:00-05:00
TraderMark
| Edit This Post |
Create A New Post
How Has the Market Done After Historically Bad Years?
2008-11-21T07:15:00-05:00
TraderMark
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Most Visited Sites
Sites I Wish I Had More Time To Read
- Newsflashr
- FinViz.com
- Zero Hedge
- Wall St Cheet Sheat
- Naked Capitalism
- Baseline Scenario
- Abnormal Returns
- TickerSpy
- Financial Armageddon
- Infectious Greed
- FT.com Alphaville.com
- 24/7 Wall Street
- The Daily Bail
- Matt Taibbi Blog
- Calculated Risk
- NYMag
- Real Clear Markets
- All About Trends
- Carpe Diem
- What's Trading
- Finz.tv
- Zentrader
- The Financial Ninja
- Daily Options Report
- Markman
- Notable Calls
- UpsideTrader
- The Smart Money Tracker
- Stock Trading to Go
- Nouriel Roubini's Blog
- Dealbreaker
- Investment Postcards
- Toro's Running of the Bulls
- Barron's Tech Trader Daily
- Market Oracle
- StraightStocks
- FINAlternatives (Hedge Funds)
- Money and Markets
- The Market Speculator
- Contrarian Profits
- Wall Street Blips
- Wall$treet Fighter
- StreetInsider Analysts News
- Blogging Stocks (AOL)
- The Daily Reckoning
- 1440 Wall Street
- HedgeFolios
- ETF Trends
- Hedge Fund Consultant Blog
- Daily Options Report
- Get Rich Slick
- Wall $treet Folly
- Guru Focus
- Fundmastery
- The Fly on the Wall
- Bill Gross PIMCO Archives
- MrSwing.com
Industry Focus Sites
- Forex Trading
- US Debt Clock
- Bloomberg Bond Yields
- List of ADRs by Country
- Mr. Copper (Kitco)
- Gas Price by State
- Mortgage Trends
- Debt Maturations
- Form 4 Oracle - Insider Filings
- Chinese Stocks
- Greentech Media
- gnuTrade
- MineWeb
- SPDR ETFs Chart
- Coal Future Pricing - Europe
- Coal Pricing - US
- Baltic Exchange Dry Index
- Solar Feeds
- The Housing Bubble
- HousingPANIC
- BusinessofVideo.com (CDNs)
Some Mutual Funds That Perk My Interest
- CGM Mutual (Kenneth Heebner)
- CGM Focus (Kenneth Heebner)
- Quaker Strategic Growth
- Loomis Sayles Mid Cap Growth
- Bridgeway Aggressive Investors
- Eaton Vance Multi Cap Growth
- Saratoga Large Cap Growth
- AFBA Five Star Large Cap
- American Century Vista
- American Century Heritage
- TCW Growth Equities
- Dynamic Power American Growth (Noah Blackstein)
- Dover Long/Short Sector Fund
Weekly Most Read
- 1; Goldman Sachs Q3 Winning Percentage: 98.4%
- 2: Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway to Acquire Burlington Northern; Split Shares
- 3: STEC Crashes 30% on EMC Inventory Warning
- 4: Las Vegas Sands Earnings "Ok" but CEO Talk Supports Stock
- 5: Barron's - a Scare that can Last Beyond Halloween
- 6: Nearly 600,000 Americans Walked Away from their Mortgage in 2008
- 7: Paul Tudor Jones Q3 Investor Letter - Another Gold Bug
- 8: Nouriel Roubini CNBC: "Mother of all Carry Trades"
- 9: Potential Fly in Bull's Ointment - Early Stage Head and Shoulders Formation
Archives By Date
-
►
2009(1850)
-
►
11/08 - 11/15(16)
- Bookkeeping: Short E-House Holdings (EJ)
- Bookkeeping: Selling All of Friday's Index Long Ex...
- Walmart (WMT) Executive: "There are Families Not E...
- Looking at the Market Indexes; "Double Top Breakou...
- Albert Edwards of Societe Generale Remains Firmly ...
- Priceline.com (PCLN) Hits an Earnings Home Run
- Fund Performance Period 11
- Bookkeeping: Selling Another 1/4th of Original SPY...
- Las Vegas Sands (LVS) Sets Hong Kong Macau IPO Ran...
- Dr. Reddy's Laboratories (RDY) Impressive on Both ...
- Bookkeeping: Adding to Discover Financial (DFS)
- Bookkeeping: Covering Costco (COST) Short
- Bookkeeping: Selling Half SPY Calls Purchased Frid...
- Bookkeeping: Weekly Changes to Fund Positions Year...
- Updated Position Sheet
- Barry Ritholtz Shreds Warren Buffet
-
►
11/01 - 11/08(38)
- In Case You Missed It - the Week's Most Popular Po...
- Blackstone Group (BX) Continues its Recovery; Beat...
- Wells Fargo (WFC) Kicks the Can by Transofrming Op...
- Potential Fly in Bull Ointment: Early Stage Head a...
- Bookkeeping: Making Some Long Purchases
- Bookkeeping: Adding Some Index Longs on Morning Pu...
- Official Unemployment Rate Hits 10.2%; Reality is ...
- #1 Article on UK Telegraph Website: No Respect, No...
- Blue Coat Systems (BCSI) - More Global Labor Arbit...
- Yet Another "V" Shaped Bounce- Old Patterns Seem U...
- Fannie Mae's New Deed for Lease Program - Rent you...
- Bookkeeping: Closing Myriad Genetics (MYGN) as Ear...
- Groundhog Day - is it Wednesday or Thursday?
- Fuel Systems Solutions (FSYS) Rockets Over 20% on ...
- General Updates: Mutual Fund, Website, Misc.
- Whitney Tilson T2 Partners October 2009 Investor L...
- Bookkeeping: Selling a Third of Silver (SLV) Posit...
- Still Many Broken Charts Despite the Index Rallies...
- Market Jumps Back over 50 Day Moving Average as In...
- Goldman Sachs (GS) Q3 Winning Percentage: 98.4%
- STEC (STEC) Crashes 30% on EMC (EMC) Inventory War...
- Nouriel Roubini on CNBC: "Mother of all Carry Trad...
- Showdown at the Federal Reserve Corral
- Nearly 600,000 Americans Walked Away from their Mo...
- Apple's (AAPL) iPhone Only Sells 5000 Units in 1st...
- Bookkeeping: Buying Long Term Downside Protection ...
- Ugly Premarket Action
- International Monetary Fund to Sell One Eighth of ...
- Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) to Acqu...
- Lack of Green Energy Manufacturing Capability in U...
- Good News Sold, S&P Turned Back at 50 Day Moving A...
- NYT: Are Chinese Video Game Makers a Threat to Wes...
- The Market with no Memory from Day to Day
- Conseco (CNO) - A Chance to Follow John Paulson wi...
- ► 10/25 - 11/01(48)
- ► 10/18 - 10/25(37)
- ► 10/11 - 10/18(40)
- ► 10/04 - 10/11(35)
- ► 09/27 - 10/04(41)
- ► 09/20 - 09/27(39)
- ► 09/13 - 09/20(35)
- ► 09/06 - 09/13(32)
- ► 08/30 - 09/06(32)
- ► 08/23 - 08/30(34)
- ► 08/16 - 08/23(36)
- ► 08/09 - 08/16(39)
- ► 08/02 - 08/09(40)
- ► 07/26 - 08/02(45)
- ► 07/19 - 07/26(45)
- ► 07/12 - 07/19(45)
- ► 07/05 - 07/12(40)
- ► 06/28 - 07/05(31)
- ► 06/21 - 06/28(37)
- ► 06/14 - 06/21(44)
- ► 06/07 - 06/14(42)
- ► 05/31 - 06/07(44)
- ► 05/24 - 05/31(39)
- ► 05/17 - 05/24(33)
- ► 05/10 - 05/17(39)
- ► 05/03 - 05/10(47)
- ► 04/26 - 05/03(45)
- ► 04/19 - 04/26(43)
- ► 04/12 - 04/19(40)
- ► 04/05 - 04/12(40)
- ► 03/29 - 04/05(40)
- ► 03/22 - 03/29(45)
- ► 03/15 - 03/22(45)
- ► 03/08 - 03/15(46)
- ► 03/01 - 03/08(49)
- ► 02/22 - 03/01(49)
- ► 02/15 - 02/22(45)
- ► 02/08 - 02/15(49)
- ► 02/01 - 02/08(49)
- ► 01/25 - 02/01(49)
- ► 01/18 - 01/25(38)
- ► 01/11 - 01/18(53)
- ► 01/04 - 01/11(52)
-
►
11/08 - 11/15(16)
-
▼
2008(2199)
- ► 12/28 - 01/04(27)
- ► 12/21 - 12/28(25)
- ► 12/14 - 12/21(41)
- ► 12/07 - 12/14(39)
- ► 11/30 - 12/07(34)
- ► 11/23 - 11/30(31)
-
▼
11/16 - 11/23(33)
- Rally on Tim Geithner?
- The Best Casino Ever - Restarting Ultra Real Estat...
- Unbelievable
- Bookkeeping: Initiating Ultrashort Lehman 20+ Year...
- Gold
- Bookkeeping: Selling some Joy Global (JOYG)
- Fear Louise Yamada
- How Has the Market Done After Historically Bad Yea...
- Nice While it Lasted
- Bookkeeping: Adding to NuVasive (NUVA)
- Bookkeeping: Restarting Baidu.com (BIDU)
- Bookkeeping: Starting to Rebuild Potash (POT)
- Bookkeeping: Beginning Joy Global (JOYG) Position
- Commercial Real Estate Finally Hitting Home in Fin...
- A-Power Energy (APWR) Bit of a Miss but Business M...
- Quintuple Bottom Breaks
- Strange Action in James River Coal (JRCC)
- Big Cap Financials are Frightening
- Yesterday's Fake Last Hour Markup Eliminated
- NuVasive (NUVA) Hitting 2008 Lows
- S&P 500 2009 Estimates All Over the Map
- Boston Globe: What Would a 2009 Depression Look Li...
- Cleveland Cliffs (CLF), Alpha Natural Resources (A...
- Jim Rogers Fans - go to Investment Postcards from ...
- Plunge Protection Team Says "Not Today, Not on Our...
- Median Housing Prices About to Fall Back Below $20...
- S&P 500 Looks Ready to Bow Out
- Paulson Buying Mortgage Backed Securities
- Not a Good Week for China "Dot Coms"
- Bloomberg: Poverty, Pension Fears Drive Japan Elde...
- Global Climate Change Could Lead to Violence
- New York Times: Downturn Drags More Consumers into...
- Weekly Summary
- ► 11/09 - 11/16(33)
- ► 11/02 - 11/09(33)
- ► 10/26 - 11/02(43)
- ► 10/19 - 10/26(35)
- ► 10/12 - 10/19(34)
- ► 10/05 - 10/12(38)
- ► 09/28 - 10/05(40)
- ► 09/21 - 09/28(46)
- ► 09/14 - 09/21(52)
- ► 09/07 - 09/14(49)
- ► 08/31 - 09/07(36)
- ► 08/24 - 08/31(43)
- ► 08/17 - 08/24(48)
- ► 08/10 - 08/17(50)
- ► 08/03 - 08/10(46)
- ► 07/27 - 08/03(46)
- ► 07/20 - 07/27(49)
- ► 07/13 - 07/20(48)
- ► 07/06 - 07/13(52)
- ► 06/29 - 07/06(42)
- ► 06/22 - 06/29(47)
- ► 06/15 - 06/22(41)
- ► 06/08 - 06/15(39)
- ► 06/01 - 06/08(36)
- ► 05/25 - 06/01(30)
- ► 05/18 - 05/25(39)
- ► 05/11 - 05/18(40)
- ► 05/04 - 05/11(41)
- ► 04/27 - 05/04(48)
- ► 04/20 - 04/27(44)
- ► 04/13 - 04/20(48)
- ► 04/06 - 04/13(41)
- ► 03/30 - 04/06(54)
- ► 03/23 - 03/30(41)
- ► 03/16 - 03/23(47)
- ► 03/09 - 03/16(32)
- ► 03/02 - 03/09(44)
- ► 02/24 - 03/02(54)
- ► 02/17 - 02/24(40)
- ► 02/10 - 02/17(57)
- ► 02/03 - 02/10(57)
- ► 01/27 - 02/03(49)
- ► 01/20 - 01/27(48)
- ► 01/13 - 01/20(46)
- ► 01/06 - 01/13(43)
-
►
2007(913)
- ► 12/30 - 01/06(33)
- ► 12/23 - 12/30(29)
- ► 12/16 - 12/23(39)
- ► 12/09 - 12/16(36)
- ► 12/02 - 12/09(33)
- ► 11/25 - 12/02(44)
- ► 11/18 - 11/25(25)
- ► 11/11 - 11/18(44)
- ► 11/04 - 11/11(54)
- ► 10/28 - 11/04(51)
- ► 10/21 - 10/28(57)
- ► 10/14 - 10/21(55)
- ► 10/07 - 10/14(57)
- ► 09/30 - 10/07(55)
- ► 09/23 - 09/30(41)
- ► 09/16 - 09/23(41)
- ► 09/09 - 09/16(37)
- ► 09/02 - 09/09(31)
- ► 08/26 - 09/02(44)
- ► 08/19 - 08/26(43)
- ► 08/12 - 08/19(37)
- ► 08/05 - 08/12(27)








